Re: RARA-AVIS: Re: Super Heroes, Comics, and Noir

From: Steve Novak (
Date: 25 Jul 2008

  • Next message: davezeltserman: "RARA-AVIS: Re: Super Heroes, Comics, and Noir"

    Cicadas just started chirping in southeast Michigan yesterday for the first time this year after a lot of wet weather...thank god for the wonderful chirping...which brings us here close to Costa-Rica and southwestern France...

    Išll drink to that,

    ...a noir syrah of course...


    On 7/25/08 10:12 AM, "davezeltserman" <> wrote:

    > --- In <> ,
    > "Sandra Ruttan" <sandraruttan@...>
    > wrote:
    >> >
    >> > I'm not intending to nitpick, but this idea of motivation as a critical
    >> > component really struck me. I guess I feel that if someone has all good
    >> > motivations and is really trying hard to fix some problem/stop
    > something bad
    >> > from happening and they fail, it's more likely to be noir. At the very
    >> > least, it's more depressing.
    > I would call that more irony. If we label every book where bad things
    > happen to characters as noir, then almost everything written gets
    > labeled noir. I think at some point you have to go to the works of the
    > authors more universally recognized as writing in the noir tradition
    > to better define literary noir. But I also think Mario has it right,
    > each of us has our own internal definition of noir and know it when we
    > see it.
    >> > That said, I'm content to let noir be defined by the individual, as the
    >> > argument over what is and is not noir is one that nobody will ever
    > win, and
    >> > thus an exercise in futility.
    > But Sandra, don't you know what we do here at Rara Avis is argue the
    > definition of noir? Our cycle is briefer than the cicadas, probably
    > every 2 years, but once it happens we'll go through a 2-3 week
    > "discussion" with the same passionate arguments brought out. And like
    > the cicadas, it usually amounts to a lot of chirping...
    > --Dave

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