Let's remember that Batman is not technically a super-hero: he has no
super-powers. He is merely a gaudily costumed crime fighter.
I have learned from experience that arguments about the definition of "noir"
are wearying, in part because, since noir is not a genre, it lacks the
definable qualities of a genre. Ultimately noir is just a "mood" word, so it
means whatever people want it to mean.
Mark
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Steve Novak <Cinefrog@comcast.net> wrote:
> A few lingering thoughts to muddy up the waters...
>
> The post-modern bit was of course in good fun and a joke...
>
> It doesn't change the fact that Batman would never qualify as noir in many
> definitions/acceptions/interpretations of what noir is and in my case I
> strongly subscribe to that...
>
> Having a noir shot/sequence in a film/book...or a character with some
> 'noir'
> attributes, doesn't make the film/book/graphic novel fully noir...it's a
> whole set of consistent attributes/characteristics...throughout the piece
> that can help towards its 'qualification' as noir...
>
> Incidentally: I do not consider publication in a 'pulp' as 'entry' into the
> noir genre/mode/group...because if we said that we could/would say for
> example that all of the Série Noire is 'noir' or all the films written
> by....are noir or that all the films shot by such DP are
> noir...etc...etc...
>
> ....and last but not best...I would consider any super-hero as instantly
> disqualified from any 'noir' affiliation...just by the very premisse under
> which it exists...
>
> Montois
>
> On 7/23/08 12:54 PM, "Mark R. Harris" <brokerharris@gmail.com<brokerharris%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > By virtue of his era of origin, initial vigilante character, and
> surrounding
> > dark pulp atmosphere, Batman is certainly historically noir if any
> > super-hero is. Post-modernism has nothing to do with it:
> >
> > "The first Batman story, "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate," was
> published
> > in *Detective Comics* #27 (May 1939). Finger said, "Batman was originally
> > written in the style of the pulps",and this influence was evident with
> > Batman showing little remorse over killing or maiming criminals and was
> not
> > above using firearms." (Wikipedia)
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Steve Novak <Cinefrog@comcast.net<Cinefrog%40comcast.net>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry friends but Batman noir???!!!....a superhero
> >> noir??????!!!!!!!!...arenšt the two words almost opposites...
> >>
> >> I guess that is part of another post-and super-post-modern version of
> >> noir???
> >>
> >> Seriously: I just donšt get this at all!..
> >>
> >> Montois
> >>
> >> On 7/23/08 10:42 AM, "William"
> >> <smilliam.wiff@earthlink.net <smilliam.wiff%40earthlink.net>
> <smilliam.wiff%40earthlink.net>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
>
>
>
-- Mark R. Harris 2122 W. Russet Court #8 Appleton WI 54914 (920) 470-9855 brokerharris@gmail.com[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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