From: Steve Novak (Cinefrog@comcast.net)
Date: 23 Jul 2008

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    A few lingering thoughts to muddy up the waters...

    The post-modern bit was of course in good fun and a joke...

    It doesn't change the fact that Batman would never qualify as noir in many definitions/acceptions/interpretations of what noir is and in my case I strongly subscribe to that...

    Having a noir shot/sequence in a film/book...or a character with some 'noir' attributes, doesn't make the film/book/graphic novel fully noir...it's a whole set of consistent attributes/characteristics...throughout the piece that can help towards its 'qualification' as noir...

    Incidentally: I do not consider publication in a 'pulp' as 'entry' into the noir genre/mode/group...because if we said that we could/would say for example that all of the Série Noire is 'noir' or all the films written by....are noir or that all the films shot by such DP are noir...etc...etc...

    ....and last but not best...I would consider any super-hero as instantly disqualified from any 'noir' affiliation...just by the very premisse under which it exists...


    On 7/23/08 12:54 PM, "Mark R. Harris" <brokerharris@gmail.com> wrote:

    > By virtue of his era of origin, initial vigilante character, and surrounding
    > dark pulp atmosphere, Batman is certainly historically noir if any
    > super-hero is. Post-modernism has nothing to do with it:
    > "The first Batman story, "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate," was published
    > in *Detective Comics* #27 (May 1939). Finger said, "Batman was originally
    > written in the style of the pulps",and this influence was evident with
    > Batman showing little remorse over killing or maiming criminals and was not
    > above using firearms." (Wikipedia)
    > Mark
    > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Steve Novak <Cinefrog@comcast.net> wrote:
    >> Sorry friends but Batman noir???!!!....a superhero
    >> noir??????!!!!!!!!...arenšt the two words almost opposites...
    >> I guess that is part of another post-and super-post-modern version of
    >> noir???
    >> Seriously: I just donšt get this at all!..
    >> Montois
    >> On 7/23/08 10:42 AM, "William"
    >> <smilliam.wiff@earthlink.net<smilliam.wiff%40earthlink.net>>
    >> wrote:

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