RARA-AVIS: Re: noir

From: Dave Zeltserman ( davezelt@comcast.net)
Date: 01 Oct 2005


You didn't twist my words at all - just made them a bit clearer ;) Nice job making sense of all these disparate thoughts and organizing them into a well thought-out piece!

Dave Z.

--- In rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "Frederick Zackel"
<fzackel@w...> wrote:
> Somebody help me out here. I read:
> "I would refer you also to David Corbett's piece on existentialism
in the
> current "Reflections of a Private Eye." In the existentialist
view the
> world is chaotic, lacking in any meaning other than the meaning a
> creates for himself through his actions. That's noir. The
protagonist in
> such stories is no more doomed than we all are. If you excuse the
> sexist language, "Man's Fate."
> Then I read Bruce, saying,
> "Charles Ardai drew recently in speaking with him privately after
> fine B'con panel on noir. He said that the Greeks felt their
> was determined by the gods, and when a Greek tragedy suggests that
> gods were acting completely arbitrarily or unjustly, as in Oedipus
> it created a noir universe."
> Einstein said he couldn't believe that God played dice with the
> But He does.
> Clendon then wonders, "The protagonist can't win because there is
too much
> chaos in the way?"
> Okay...
> And I started thinking about our current bunch of All-American
> and Intelligent Designers, (twisting Dave Z.'s words) "all
grasping for
> whatever hope they can get a glimmer of only to have it ripped
away." In a
> universe of chaos, those religionists (?) are noir. They are
screwed. To
> twist Kerry J. Schooley's words, they "aspire to a set of values
that have
> no meaning outside their world... It is a set of values that can
only be
> maintained with a lot of work done for no purpose other than to
try to make
> that particular set of values work, and the strength of character
to ignore
> the obvious consequences of that work..." Without Providence,
without a
> loving personal god who makes sense and who watches over them,
> screwed.
> Religion is rooting around in here somewhere, like a pig with
truffles. In
> his daughter's biography, Hammett, an ex-Catholic, had come to
believe that
> Random Chance ruled, which puts a sort of religious (or ex-
religious) spin
> on "falling beams."
> Kent's right, too, I think, that, "So in the end, ironically, I
think Noir
> is about a growth in human awareness/consciousness. I think it
means we have
> a chance. We have hope. It means we're willing to face the ugly
things in
> life and go on from there." In a cold chemical universe (such as
Camus or
> Satre's) we go on. I also don't think established, hierachial
religion is
> the answer to feeling Doomed. I look at Creationists, for
example, who talk
> like the Flintstones was How It Really Was 'way back when, and I
think, in
> our post-modern world, they're losers, they're doomed.
> Then Mark says,
> "Brigid slips out of police custody after leaving Spade's presence
> (perhaps seduces one of the cops, grabs his gun and shoots him?).
> next hear of her in Casablanca. She's heard someone has
> about the Falcon; he gambles at Rick's Cafe Americain.
> as she enters the club, she spots Guttman and Cairo, who have
heard the
> same rumors."
> Oh man I'll go see that movie!
> Fred Zackel
> "lakhn mit yashtsherkes"

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/kqIolB/TM

RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
  Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 01 Oct 2005 EDT