Alan Carter wrote:
> If I may interject...I think the world-view of both
Noir and
> Hard-Boiled fiction is one in which the "World"
portrayed is
> essentially an evil one. The world of Cain and
Woolrich and Thompson
> is one of despair, bitterness and corruption. The
typical
> Noir/Hard-Boiled protagonist is often viewed as a
"White Knight" out
> to right wrongs and do justice. I think this is
partially mistaken.
> The typical protagonist in both kinds of stories can
not always be
> describes as a "Good" fighting "Evil." One of the
greatest
> characters I've ever seen created (in one of the
hardest of the
> hard-boiled novels I've ever read) is a corrupt
gangster named Gerry
> Kells in Paul Cain's "Fast One." There is no attempt
at all in this
> novel to portray Kells as anything but a
crook.
> Same is true of one of - in my opinion - the hardest
hard-boiled
> novels ever written. "Solomon's Vinyard" by Jonathan
Lattimer.
> While the protagonist here is, in fact, a PI, he
most assuredly
> cannot be described as someone trying to right
wrongs.
> The point is this: Characters, I think, should be
described as
> "Hard-Boiled." They are tough, gritty, purposeful
men (and sometimes
> women)who make their own rules and follow their own
sense of justice.
> Novels and stories, on the other hand, I think are
best described as
> "Noir" as the plots and situations portrayed in the
"world-view"
> setting of corruption and evil create in the reader
what Chandler
> called "a smell of fear."
> Simply stated, characters are Hard-Boiled. Novels
are Noir.
Opinions?
**************************** I like everything you said here.
Although I subscribe fully to Jim's definitions, I see
problems with them. You mention one of them with your
suggestion that characters are hardboiled, not books. If
books are hardboiled, written with a tough and colloquial
voice, then they don't necessarily need to be dominated by
tough characters. Although I'm not sure how comfortable I am
with that, that is what I subscirbe to. That is why O'Hara's
APPOINTMENT IN SAMARRA and almost anything by Vin Packer is
hardboiled. It is their voice, not the characters, which make
the book hardboiled.
On the noir front, I have a very hard time calling something
noir if it is dark and sinister all the way through but ends
on an upbeat note. There are times when I lean more towards
Jack Bludis's "screwed" definition for noir. One thing I
would have to note here is that I differentiate between film
noir and written noir. Jim notes that film noir is more of a
style than an actual genre, and I buy that. But written noir
is more of a philosophical stance, darkly existential in
nature.
miker
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