Mike and Manuel,
Re your comments below:
> > manuel ramos said:
> >
> > > IMO, Vea is a great writer, but I can't
see that
> his books are noir.
> The
> > > endings are too upbeat, although the
characters
> go through hell to get
> > there.
> > > Michael, I know you want a "definitive"
list of
> hard-boiled and noir
> > > writers, and a clear definition. If you
look at
> the archives you will
> see
> > > that these are regular topics here. There
have
> been some very good
> > attempts
> > > at defining the genre. I'm still
learning.
> > >
> >
> i'm in the same boat, manuel. i'm just now
getting
> a feel for the
> "hardboiled"
> and "noir". i don't really know how to search
the
> archives. i imagine i go
> to
> the web site and type in a word or phrase, same
as
> if i was looking for a
> book at amazon. like you noted, i'm sure
the
> discussion of "what is hard-
> boiled?" is not a new one. near as i can
tell,
> upbeat endings are
> definitely not
> hardboiled. haha. thedetective might get his
man
> (or woman) but too much
> mud, blood, and beer went into the gutter to be
real
> happy about it.
(For those of you who've read this before, my apoligies).
It's really very simple. "Hardboiled" is about attitude.
"Noir" is about atmosphere. They're not the same thing, but
neither are they mutually exclusive. To use examples from
film (since "noir," in the US anyway, originally was a film
term). THE WINDOW (from a Cornell Woolrich story) is noir but
not hard-boiled. The 1969 film MARLOWE (from THE LITTLE
SISTER) is hardboiled but not noir. The 1945 film MURDER, MY
SWEET (from FAREWELL, MY LOVELY) is both.
That which is both tough and colloquial is hardboiled.
That's really all there is to it.
That which is both dark and sinister is noir. That, too, is
really all there is to it.
JIM DOHERTY
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