Re: RARA-AVIS: Re: talking tough

From: Steve Novak (
Date: 02 Jun 2009

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    Here we go again, post-noir, neo-noir, deconstructed-noir, post-neo noir, nouveau-noir, trash-noir, punk-noir, grunge-noir, porno-noir...etc...etc...and the worse is that this thread might grow trying to define anyone of those... please somebody tell me whatkinda noir is David Peace?...Ken Bruen, JP Manchette, Ellroy, Montalban, Céline, Auster, Vaschss, Estleman, Gibson, Willeford, I assume they don¹t fit all in the same box if you¹re going to play exclusions and borders...



    PS: just started David Peace and I am as blown away as with Bruen two years ago...thanks to those who spoke about him on Rara..and on Rompol, Polar Noir and Noir¹ode

    On 6/2/09 3:44 PM, "" <> wrote:

    > Dave, man, TRY picking up? Another case of books overfat with filler? Know
    > what you mean though, but isn't that what noir is about--the "doomed" thing.
    > Aren't we defeated by our own foolishness, by our illusions and sometimes, our
    > allusions? It's not really noir if it's only "them" that's fucked, am I right?
    > What's with this neo-noir thing BTW? Have we agreed that noir itself is dead?
    > I'm not fighting it. Pretty much thought No Country for Old Men summed it all
    > up, myself. Put the old genre out of her misery, that did. After Stansberry
    > called for defib, stat, have we agreed the nurses left the room? Cutbacks in
    > the budget, probably. I'm just poking the corpse, unaccustomed as I am to
    > crossing the line into concensus.
    > Redemption at last?
    > Kerry
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: davezeltserman
    > To: <>
    > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:34 PM
    > Subject: RARA-AVIS: Re: talking tough
    > --- In <> ,
    > Kevin Burton Smith <kvnsmith@...> wrote:
    >> >
    >> > One of the problems some neo-noir writers seem to have is this
    >> > patronizing theme that being working class or unemployed means having
    >> > no class. Being unemployed doesn't necessarily automatically make you
    >> > start saying "Fuck" every two words, or suddenly want to take a belt
    >> > sander to your wife.
    >> >
    > You hit exactly on what bothers me with so many of the neo-noir books I try
    > picking up. That, and also just really dumb, bad behavior to advance the plot.
    > --Dave

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