--- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Michael Robison
<miker_zspider@...> wrote:
>
> *************
> I think the psycho part has been answered by
those
> more knowledgeable than me. Definitely the
following:
>
> Double Indemnity, Cain
> Killer Inside Me, Thompson
> Burnt Orange Heresy, Willeford
>
> What is standard and pure, I don't know. There
is
> some disagreement on the list about whether
the
> victorious hardboiled detective novels (like
The
> Maltese Falcon) qualifies as noir fiction, even if
the
> film version is noir.
>
> There are two simple sets of definitions
for
> hardboiled and noir now rolling around the group.
Jim
> Doherty says:
> noir = dark and sinister
> hardboiled = tough and colloquial
>
> Jack Bludis says:
> noir = screwed
> hardboiled = tough
We have never reached a consensus, or anything like it. I do
think that most of us tend to agree, when talking about a
particular novel or story, whether it is NOT hardboiled or
NOT noir. But the word
"noir" has entered popular language and no longer serves as a
technical term. With that interpretation in mind, lots of
things are called "noir", The Maltese Falcon included.
With the more refined distinctions that some of us have
brought up, the Falcon might not be a noir novel. I don't
think it is, as I don't think anything by Chandler or Ross
Macdonald is noir. One problem is that hardboiled and noir
can coexist in the same novel or story. One person might see
it as a hardboiled story and another as a noir story. Then
there is the question of _film noir_, a category that is not
very clearly defined either. It is not just a look. You can
make a horror film with a very similar look to a noir film,
for example. The Uninvited, for example, not noir. And you
can make a noir film that looks like a Western (_The
Shooting_, for example) or like a series of flashes of
sixties' color with the Yardbirds in the background
(_Blow-Up_).
Best, perhaps to be continued if the bricks don't start
flying...
mrt
> miker
>
>
>
>
>
>
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