Re: RARA-AVIS: Digest Number 1548

From: Jack Bludis (
Date: 06 Jul 2007

Brian asked:

> Brian,
> Re your comment below:
> "We can't even agree on any sort of comprehensive
> definition of 'hb/noir.'"

And Jim Doherty responded:

> Sure we can.
> If it's tough and colloquial, it's hard-boiled.
> If it's dark and sinister, it's noir.
> If it's tough and colloquial AND dark and sinister,
> it's both hard-boiled and noir.
> THAT was settled AGES ago. How did you manage to miss
> it?

Maybe settled for Jim, but I still say the definition of noir is "screwed."

The old Gothic novels were dark and sinister, so are the modern erotic vampire novels ... Noir, nah.

The definition of hardboiled is "tough." Makes no difference if it's colloquial. No way Chandler was colloquial ... I know Jim will argue this too. But being literate doesn't exclude a character or a book from being hardboiled.

The settlement, as Jim calls it, was that we just got tired of discussing it.


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