Hi Richard,
I'm afraid the humor in Lolita was lost to me. I think
Nabokov wrote it ironically, because of the hypocracy he saw
as an immigrant in US society, but I don't find Lolita funny.
Irony is certainly not LOL humor. Thompson's Recoil is a very
ironic novel, as is Warren's All The King's Men, but neither
could be considered actually funny. I think an argument could
be made that Warren's novel is also "noir," but it may go
beyond that genre. I think, personally, that Lolita is
basically a noir novel composed by a genius.
Patrick
--- Richard Moore <
moorich@aol.com> wrote:
> My apologies for being absent from this dialog
for
> days at a time.
> It has been many years since I read LOLITA
and
> Cain's BUTTERFLY--
> long enough that I don't feel comfortable
being
> hard-over on this.
> My memory is that BUTTERFLY was more noir
or
> near-noir than LOLITA.
> I do not believe that every novel wherein the
male
> lead is lured to
> his doom by a female (regardless of age) is
noir.
>
> Jailbait novels were relatively common in the
first
> few decades of
> paperbacks. Some, such as several by Gil
Brewer,
> were noir. Many
> others were backwoods comedy romps trying to
catch
> the Tobacco Road
> audience and I wouldn't consider them noir
novels.
>
> Perhaps my problem is that I have trouble labeling
a
> funny novel
> Noir. As I recall it, LOLITA is a very funny
novel.
>
>
> On the other hand, I do believe a novel can be
both
> hardboiled and
> funny.
>
> Just today I began reading a very funny novel
I
> learned about
> through Keith Roberts' memoir (of sorts)
LEMADY.
> The book is DON'T
> POINT THAT THING AT ME by Kyril Bonfiglioli and
it
> manages to be
> both tough and very, very funny.
>
> Richard Moore
>
> --- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "E. Borgers"
> <webeurop@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Patrick.
> > Especially for "Buttefly" which is really
noir.
> > Confusion here is that a lot of the
"speakers"
> consider noir as
> as sub-genre or a sub-sub-genre, of
mystery/crime
> lit. It's not.
> > Noir is wider than mystrery lit, and as
I
> advocated it here many
> times, HB is just one of the sub-genre it
included.
> > Noir covers parts of gen lit,
mystery,
> humor...the list is long.
> >
> > A little bit as in the mathematical theory
of
> sets: it contains
> sub-sets and intersects with other sets (genres
or
> type of lit) than
> mystery/crime.
> >
> > Speaking of the origins, archaic forms, noir
and
> mystery/crime
> lived togheter and influenced one another all
along
> the way.
> > Even starting with the Bible...
> >
> > E.Borgers
> > POLAR NOIR
> > http://www.geocities.com/polarnoir
> >
> >
> > Patrick King <abrasax93@...> a 飲it
:
> > Thanks for your response, but why
don't
> you consider
> > Lolita inparticular, and nymphette novels
in
> general,
> > noir novels? What other genre do they fall
under?
> It's
> > the same problem that involves many other
noir
> novels:
> > the anti-hero falling under the sway of a
female,
> > leading to his downfall. The only real
difference
> is
> > that the female is under 18-years-old,
adding
> another
> > demention to the level of obsession and to
the
> > darkness of the story. Cain's Butterfly
is
> essentially
> > this same problem, isn't it? Would you
not
> consider
> > Butterfly a noir novel?
> >
> > Patrick King
> > --- Richard Moore <moorich@...>
wrote:
> >
> > > I admire Nobokov's LOLITA but do not
consider it
> a
> > > noir novel.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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