RE : Re: RARA-AVIS: Lolita and noir

From: E. Borgers (
Date: 26 Jan 2007

I agree with Patrick.
  Especially for "Buttefly" which is really noir.
  Confusion here is that a lot of the "speakers" consider noir as as sub-genre or a sub-sub-genre, of mystery/crime lit. It's not.
  Noir is wider than mystrery lit, and as I advocated it here many times, HB is just one of the sub-genre it included.
  Noir covers parts of gen lit, mystery, humor...the list is long.
  A little bit as in the mathematical theory of sets: it contains sub-sets and intersects with other sets (genres or type of lit) than mystery/crime.
  Speaking of the origins, archaic forms, noir and mystery/crime lived togheter and influenced one another all along the way.
  Even starting with the Bible...

Patrick King <> a 飲it :
          Thanks for your response, but why don't you consider Lolita inparticular, and nymphette novels in general, noir novels? What other genre do they fall under? It's the same problem that involves many other noir novels: the anti-hero falling under the sway of a female, leading to his downfall. The only real difference is that the female is under 18-years-old, adding another demention to the level of obsession and to the darkness of the story. Cain's Butterfly is essentially this same problem, isn't it? Would you not consider Butterfly a noir novel?

Patrick King
--- Richard Moore <> wrote:

> I admire Nobokov's LOLITA but do not consider it a
> noir novel.

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