Dave,
Isn't 'a confrontation with death' what leads these 'walking
dead' protagonists to their final hopeless state? The
'confrontation with death' I mention below doesn't have to be
the protagonist's own. It usually isn't. Mortality is
nonetheless key. Think of Mike Hammer in that brilliantly
noir opening chapter of ONE ENDLESS NIGHT
(otherwise a terrible novel). We've probably all read
detective novels where death has little consequence, where a
murder is just a problem to be solved. But in noir, death's
reach is long and its grasp is firm. And, unfortunately,
there's no one to chop its arm off at the elbow. Not even
Mike Hammer.
As for the electric chair analogy, I was thinking of Marv
from SIN CITY. Hardboiled, and then some.
Al
--- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Zeltserman"
<dz@...> wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> I agree with your mortality angle in a sense--except
instead of
> physical mortality I look at it more as a spiritual
mortality; the
> noir character has been screwed over or psychically
damaged to the
> point where there's just no hope. So many great noir
books, like
> Thompson's "Hell of a Woman" and "Pop. 1280" leave
these
> protagonists as the walking dead--they may be alive
at the end,
but
> there's no future for them. "Double Indemity" leaves
Walter Huff
and
> Phyliss eagerly awaiting death because that's all
they have left.
> Your eletric chair analogy is kind of interesting
because it
brings
> to mind the Cagney film "Angels with Dirty Faces"
where Cagney's
> Rocky doesn't give a shit about being strapped to
the chair at the
> end, but what makes this such great noir is he gives
up the one
> thing he has left--sacrificing his reputation to try
to save some
> kids from following in his footsteps. Yeah, he
performs a last act
> of herorism in the end, but it still feels like noir
to me.
>
> --Dave Z.
>
>
> --- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "al_guthrie65"
<allan@> wrote:
> >
> > 'Screwed' is close but it doesn't take attitude
into account.
You
> > can strap a man in an electric chair and fry
his brains but if
he
> > doesn't give a shit, it's not noir.
> >
> > Mortality has always been a fundamental part of
noir for me.
> > Consequently, I'd suggest that noir might be
defined as 'a
> > confrontation with death by someone
ill-equipped to deal with
it'.
> >
> > Al
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