Re: RARA-AVIS: Re: S鲩e Noire

From: Michael Robison ( miker_zspider@yahoo.com)
Date: 21 Dec 2006


Dave Zeltserman wrote:

Do you have any examples [of noir endings where the protagonist is not totally screwed]?

********** Bucky gets away with the babe and all his appendages in Ellroy's The Black Dahlia. Charles Williams's Dead Calm, Scorpion Reef, and Sailcloth Shroud. McGivern's The Big Heat. The Big Clock. I have not mentioned any of the leading hardboiled detective novels because I don't see them as being noir. As MrT has noted, most of those guys are simply too tough for noir.

It could be argued that those books aren't noir because the lead character slips away with some hope, and I wouldn't object too highly to that. There are other genres that are predominantly defined by the ending. My only reservation is that before you ever get to the ending there are several characteristics that can give a noir feel. Jim's "dark and sinister" atmosphere weighs in here. A weak and immoral character enslaved to his own criminal compulsions is another.

One of our main problems in defining noir has been the method of definition, requiring firm fixed characteristics shared by all in the category. A fellow by the name of Wittgenstein came up with an alternate method involving a group of characteristics for a category, of which a particular element would reflect one or more. At first, this method of definition might appear unacceptably arbitrary, but try and define something like a "game" without it.

miker

  

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