RARA-AVIS: Re: S鲩e Noire

From: Dave Zeltserman ( dz@hardluckstories.com)
Date: 20 Dec 2006


Al,

I agree with your mortality angle in a sense--except instead of physical mortality I look at it more as a spiritual mortality; the noir character has been screwed over or psychically damaged to the point where there's just no hope. So many great noir books, like Thompson's "Hell of a Woman" and "Pop. 1280" leave these protagonists as the walking dead--they may be alive at the end, but there's no future for them. "Double Indemity" leaves Walter Huff and Phyliss eagerly awaiting death because that's all they have left. Your eletric chair analogy is kind of interesting because it brings to mind the Cagney film "Angels with Dirty Faces" where Cagney's Rocky doesn't give a shit about being strapped to the chair at the end, but what makes this such great noir is he gives up the one thing he has left--sacrificing his reputation to try to save some kids from following in his footsteps. Yeah, he performs a last act of herorism in the end, but it still feels like noir to me.

--Dave Z.

--- In rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "al_guthrie65" <allan@...> wrote:
>
> 'Screwed' is close but it doesn't take attitude into account. You
> can strap a man in an electric chair and fry his brains but if he
> doesn't give a shit, it's not noir.
>
> Mortality has always been a fundamental part of noir for me.
> Consequently, I'd suggest that noir might be defined as 'a
> confrontation with death by someone ill-equipped to deal with it'.
>
> Al
>
> --- In rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Michael Robison
> <miker_zspider@> wrote:
> >
> > Mark: I'm down with Jack's "screwed" definition.
> >
> > John Lau: if we want to take a vote, so am I
> >
> > **************
> > I'll jump on this wagon. The Harry Potter books have
> > a dark and sinister atmosphere, but I don't think I'd
> > indentify them as noir.
> >
> > miker
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>



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