Re: RARA-AVIS: Re: Lehane's Definition

From: Steve Novak (
Date: 21 Oct 2005

Very well said Kevin, most noir heroes may have a well developped Œclass conciousness¹ but to define all noir as Œworking class tragedy¹ is missing the mark and I would add that to put it the Œtragedy¹ section is also missing the mark...some of them have tragic endings but tragedies they are not; the phenomenon of Œdistance¹ is much too present in the writing or the directing/editing, both in the weave of the stories themselves (heroes Œoff¹ commentary...etc...) or in the Œauthor¹s¹ hand (second degree)....


On 10/20/05 8:15 PM, "Kevin Burton Smith" <> wrote:

> On Sep 24, 2005, at 1:15 AM, Dave the Z wrote:
>> > I'd have to say "working-class tragedy" doesn't make a hell of a lot
>> > of sense as a definition for noir. I also don't see the connection for
>> > film noir either - how does that definition fit film noir classics
>> > like Body Heat, Angel Heart, Chinatown, Double Indemnity, Blade
>> > Runner, Godfather 2?
> I'd have to agree. While a great many noirs (both film and novel) are
> set in the working class, it's not a major factor or a defining
> definition. These people are screwed and doomed whether the spoon in
> their yaps when they were born was silver or take-out plastic.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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