Re: RARA-AVIS: Re: On Noir

Date: 30 Sep 2005


Re your comments below:

> It appears that your entire argument for how noir
> should be defined is based on what you perceive as
> its orginal use.

Fine. At least I have something I'm basing my argument on. What do you have other than that Jack and Kerry and others have said "Noir means screwed because I say so."

I'm not imposing my own view of what noir SHOULD mean.
 I'm interpreting how I see the word commonly used, and more specifically, the books and movies it's used about, and determing what I think the common characteristics are.

And the common characteristics are not fateful doom and screwed protagonists. They're a dark and sinister atmosphere.

If you think my perceptions are wrong, argue that. But don't just leave it at . . .

> I'm not sure if I buy into that . . .

Tell me what you DO buy into then, other than, "This is what I think it means." And your further comment

> . . . but if
> I did, I would point out that the term "Roman noir"
> was used in the 18th century to describe Gothic
> novels, and the terror and doom expressed in those
> books is pretty much characteristic of what I would
> describe as noir.

Yeah, but we're talking about noir as it applies to crime fiction, a genre that has only existed since the 19th Century, so that's not on point.

Noir, as it applies to the kind of crime fiction we're talking about on this list, originates with Gallimard's Serie Noir line. And THEIR use of the term, and the use of the term by the film critics who co-opted to describe a type of crime movie similar to
(often based on) the books Serie Noir was publishing, and by the editors, etc., who've used it since, was one that was quite broad.
> My experience of noir is very similar to that of a
> fellow named Paul Duncan, author of a thin little
> book
> entitled Noir Fiction. I recommend it highly,
> especially since it agrees with what I think.

Yeah, but, Miker, what you think is wrong, so why would I be interested in anyone who agrees with you.


______________________________________________________ Yahoo! for Good Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page

RARA-AVIS home page:
  Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 30 Sep 2005 EDT