Miker,
Re your comments below:
> It appears that your entire argument for how
noir
> should be defined is based on what you perceive
as
> its orginal use.
Fine. At least I have something I'm basing my argument on.
What do you have other than that Jack and Kerry and others
have said "Noir means screwed because I say so."
I'm not imposing my own view of what noir SHOULD mean.
I'm interpreting how I see the word commonly used, and
more specifically, the books and movies it's used about, and
determing what I think the common characteristics are.
And the common characteristics are not fateful doom and
screwed protagonists. They're a dark and sinister
atmosphere.
If you think my perceptions are wrong, argue that. But don't
just leave it at . . .
> I'm not sure if I buy into that . . .
Tell me what you DO buy into then, other than, "This is what
I think it means." And your further comment
> . . . but if
> I did, I would point out that the term "Roman
noir"
> was used in the 18th century to describe
Gothic
> novels, and the terror and doom expressed in
those
> books is pretty much characteristic of what I
would
> describe as noir.
Yeah, but we're talking about noir as it applies to crime
fiction, a genre that has only existed since the 19th
Century, so that's not on point.
Noir, as it applies to the kind of crime fiction we're
talking about on this list, originates with Gallimard's Serie
Noir line. And THEIR use of the term, and the use of the term
by the film critics who co-opted to describe a type of crime
movie similar to
(often based on) the books Serie Noir was publishing, and by
the editors, etc., who've used it since, was one that was
quite broad.
> My experience of noir is very similar to that of
a
> fellow named Paul Duncan, author of a thin
little
> book
> entitled Noir Fiction. I recommend it
highly,
> especially since it agrees with what I
think.
Yeah, but, Miker, what you think is wrong, so why would I be
interested in anyone who agrees with you.
JIM D.
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 30 Sep 2005 EDT