No. You could argue that a book like Killer Inside Me is more
tragedy than noir, since Lou Ford, while not necessarily born
broken
(if I remember right its implied that sexual experiences at a
young age and his father's resulting behavior on learning
about it contributed to his state) was predestined to be the
way he was. But on the other hand, he did have a choice - as
difficult as it was, to battle his true nature. For me, noir
has the choices the protagonist makes contributing to his
being screwed - even if the odds are stacked well against
him. Tragedy is something different, where the protagonist is
caught up in the whims of fate. Anyway, that's what made
Thompson's books so great - he was able to create characters
where the odds were so stacked up against them that their
bads choices they made seemed so natural for them.
--- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Karin Montin
<kmontin@s...> wrote:
> Dave, I don't quite get the difference between
creating your own
fate by being born broken and being screwed by fate. Are you
saying that being born a certain way is an intentional
act?
>
> Karin
>
> At 04:15 24/09/05 +0000, Dave Z wrote:
>
> >To me noir is more a sense of doom than tragedy.
More times than
not
> >the protagonist creates their own fate, either
by being born
broken,
> >as in some of the great Jim Thompson novels
(Killer Inside Me, A
> >Swell-Looking Babe, Pop. 1280, etc) or by
crossing a moral line,
for
> >committing murder for a woman, money, just to
see if you can get
> >away with it, etc., such as Double Indemnity,
Postman Always
Rings
> >Twice, The name of the Game is Death. Great noir
novels, such as
Mr.
> >Arkadin and How Like a God are outside the realm
of the working-
> >class. And then you've got Charles Willeford,
who created some
> >brillian tnoir novels based on artists refusing
to compromise
their
> >artistic vision. Yeah, there are some examples
of people who are
> >screwed more by fate than their own actions,
such as the film
> >Detour, but in my opinion the best examples (and
most prevalent)
of
> >noir involve the protagonist's bad decisions,
moral weaknesses,
or
> >simply broken psyches than the whims of fate.
Tragedy is one
thing,
> >noir is something completely
different.
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite
Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/kqIolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rara-avis-l/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:
rara-avis-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 24 Sep 2005 EDT