RARA-AVIS: ADMIN: List charter reminder

From: William Denton ( buff@pobox.com)
Date: 17 Jul 2004

Here's one of the irregular reposts of the list charter. Don't forget point 1, which says that everything's got to be tied to the written word.

[Last updated on: Thu Sep 5 22:43:31 2002] Welcome to RARA-AVIS, the mailing list devoted to the discussion of hardboiled and noir writing!

| "And to you, Miss O'Shaughnessy, adieu. I leave you the rara avis
| on the table as a little memento."
    -- Caspar Gutman in Dashiell Hammett's THE MALTESE FALCON

List mail should be addressed to rara-avis@icomm.ca. There are two versions of the list available: the regular version, where you get each message as other subscribers send them out, and the digest version, where you get all the mail in a big lump once or twice a day.

Please read all of this, and save the instructions on how to unsubscribe from the list.

(The following notes are adapted from the the XML4LIB mailing list rules, at http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/XML4Lib/.)


1. All messages must relate, even if only slightly, to hardboiled and noir writing. Possible topics for discussion include:

    - Just what is hardboiled fiction?
    - How does it relate to film noir and/or the pulps?
    - Does Ross Macdonald belong in the triumvirate with Chandler and Hammett?
    - Who are the best modern practitioners?
    - Are there any truly hardboiled women writers?
    - How does the genre fit into modern literature?
    - Let me tell you about the new Jason Starr book!
    - Matt Helm: he's nothing like Dean Martin.
    - What's happening in non-English noir writing?

Movies are best discussed in relation to the written word: adaptations or screenplays by hardboiled/noir writers are all right, but film noir in general is better discussed in other mailing lists or newsgroups. RARA-AVIS is based on the written word. Everything on the list should be about hardboiled or noir writing, or directly related to it. That won't make a shortage of topics of conversation.

2. Please introduce yourself to the list, but first lurk for a couple of weeks to get a feel for how it works. Then speak up!

3. The list isn't a forum for unpublished writers. Usenet newsgroups such as misc.writing are more appropriate for that. There isn't much talk by writers about themselves on the list because it's a place for devotees to speak as friends. A writer you like may be on the list! We're all equal in our love for hardboiled and noir writing.

4. Trim as much quoted text as possible from your replies (this definitely includes the footer added to the bottom of each message).

5. Very small advertisements, from list members, of new hardboiled or noir books they have written, edited, or published, are welcome.

6. Do not send virus warnings. Please visit

    Symantec Security Response: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html
    CIAC Hoaxbusters: http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/

if you hear about a new one. If you think you received a virus through the list, please mail the listowner. It has not happened yet and measures are in place to make sure it never will.

7, Insulting or baiting behaviour will not be tolerated. The list is set so that replies go to the list, not the sender, but you can change this. Off-topic mail should also be directed to the sender, not the list as a whole.

8. Only plain text messages will be broadcast. No MIME attachments are allowed (binaries, audio files, Word documents, etc.) and HTML mail will be rejected. Please see

    Configuring Mail Clients to Send Plain ASCII Text:

for how to configure your mail program. If you have a photograph, drawing, sound clip or video clip you'd like to share, please put it in an FTP site or on a web page, and announce it. If you can't do this, either offer to send it to people upon private request, or ask if someone would be kind enough to make it publicly available.


This is taken directly from the introduction to the XML4LIB mailing list (http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/XML4Lib/) and it is equally valid here:

    * Say something substantial. Simply saying "I agree" (in so many
      words) or "I disagree" (in so many words) does not meet this
      guideline. Specific technical questions are, however, quite
      appropriate, as are brief answers to such questions.

    * Say something new. Mere redundancy will not convince an opponent
      of their error. Explaining the same argument differently in an
      attempt to make them see the light has not been proven to be an
      effective strategy.

    * "Getting the last word" is for children. We're all beyond the
      age when we should be concerned with being the one to end the
      argument. Just because you are the last to speak doesn't mean
      you won the argument.

    * Agree to disagree. The likelihood of convincing someone to
      change a strongly held opinion is nil. State your case, but give
      up on the idea of converting the heathen.

    * Take "conversations" off the list. When list interaction becomes
      two-sided (two individuals trading comments or arguments) it is
      a sign that you should take the discussion off the list and
      correspond with that person directly. If the discussion was of
      interest to the general membership you will see others posting
      on the topic as well.

    * Remember that you are being judged by the quality of your
      contributions. No matter whether you are employed or not, or a
      certain age, or have a certain education, you can create a good
      professional reputation by how you contribute to a large
      electronic discussion like Web4Lib. On the other hand, you can
      ruin your reputation even faster and easier.

    * NEVER send email in anger. Go ahead and compose a message in
      anger, since that may help you work through what you're angry
      about, but don't send it. Sleep on it. You will nearly always
      decide to not send it or to recompose it. There's a reason for

    * Be civil. Treat others how you wish to be treated. No matter how
      insulting someone is to you, you will always look better to the
      bystanders (of which there are many, I hasten to remind you) by
      responding politely.

    * Respect the rights of others. An electronic discussion is a
      commons. Your right to post ends at the right of others to not
      be insulted, badgered, or to have their time needlessly wasted.


The list's web site is at:


It has some bibliographies and information taken from the list.


The list is archived at


There is no FAQ for the list, but the archives can be searched. They are the best place to start for questions about bibliographies, pseudonyms, publishing dates, authorship and so on. They also contain reviews and opinions on many writers and their works.


The list began on 5 January 1997.


We have a reading and discussion forum going, where we all read a story or novel or author at the same time. All comments are welcome--list members range from interested fans of the genre to people doing their Ph.D. on a particular writer. You can find out what story we're on at



Please take a moment to browse iComm's web site. It's at


iComm provides free Internet services to non-profit and charity groups and has donated the resources necessary to run this list.


| It was about eleven o'clock in the morning, mid October, with the
| sun not shining and a look of hard wet rain in the clearness of the
| foothills. I was wearing my powder-blue suit, with dark blue shirt, tie
| and display handkerchief, black brogues, black wool socks with dark blue
| clocks on them. I was neat, clean, shaved and sober, and I didn't care
| who knew it. I was everything the well-dressed private detective ought to
| be. I was calling on four million dollars.
   - opening lines to THE BIG SLEEP, by Raymond Chandler

| "How c-could you?" she gasped.
| I only had a moment before talking to a corpse, but I got it in.
| "It was easy," I said.
   - closing lines to I, THE JURY, by Mickey Spillane


William Denton <buff@pobox.com> The List-Owner
-- William Denton : Toronto, Canada : http://www.miskatonic.org/ : Caveat lector.
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