----- Original Message ----- From: "JIM DOHERTY" <
jimdohertyjr@yahoo.com>
> Most of the complaints about my definition are
that
> it's TOO inclusive. Which novels do you think
I'm
> excluding?
And:
> Which "sinister" novels do you think I
ignored?
Same question, Jim. And Mario already provided some good
examples:
<<Many of Goodis's stories are not dark and sinister;
rather, they merely relate hopeless situations involving
losers. Likewise, Charles Williams's _The Hot Spot_ (one of
the greatest noir novels) is neither dark nor sinister. It is
a tale of compulsion and human weakness that leads to
violence and ruin. LIkewise, Willeford's _The Woman Chaser_
is neither dark nor sinister. It is a tale of a barely
half-grown man's hysteria and its consequences.>>
Also, "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" jumps to mind. How
about "Pick-Up"? Whittington's brilliant "The Devil Wears
Wings"? Much of Charles Williams's work? Bottom line,
'sinister' is a term I'd associate more with Gothic or the
modern psychological thriller than noir. You said you'd
looked for common traits, Jim. And you came up with 'dark'
and 'sinister'. Well, that's fine, and representative of what
you've read. Why not ask around and see what everybody else
thinks? That way we'll get a more comprehensive picture. You
see, "Babe, Pig In The City" is incredibly dark and sinister
with crimes aplenty, but it all turns out fine in the end, so
it ain't noir (in my opinion).
So, in the spirit of research... If I had only one word to
describe noir, I'd opt for bleak. A definition of noir that
doesn't include 'bleak' is always going to leave me
unsatisfied, since it's surely one of its most common
characteristics. I don't think too many people find noir
terribly uplifting. I've certainly never read a feel-good
noir.
Al
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