Noir, as I understand it, was not nameed until the French,
noticing the darkness of American films of that type and era,
named it "film noir."
I *think* that what happened was that many American readers,
noting that some of the best of film noir were also base on
some of the best of Cain, Hamnett, and Chandler, adopted the
name.
(OK, Hammett and Chandler for the most part are hardboiled
and not noir, but this is just what I
*think.*)
In terms of darkness, what film is darker than the silent
film *M* with Peter Lorie?
OK, here goes the rest of the argument -- or rather, my side
of the discussion.
I think Miker has a good point. Is there any book much more
noir that *Crime and Punishment*? Any character more screwed
than Hamlet? Or Oedipus? Or many of Poe's characters?
I think what's happened over the years, and I'm to blame as
much as any of us, is that we have narrowed noir to roughly
20s until now. Think
*Mystic River* for noir -- talk about somebody being
screwed?
We can, and we probably will, discuss this subject until
everybody on this list today is well into their pension years
and still not come up with a universal definition.
For the moment I'll stick to my oversimplfied: Hardboiled =
Tough, Noir = Screwed.
A lot of good posts today thanks to Miker making us think and
me deciding that noir literature, at least as I now see it,
does extended well into the past.
Good posts on Simenon too.
Jack Bludis
PS: Whoever said "dark and brooding atmosphere" does have a
point, but I think noir is so much more than that, and so
much simpler.
===== http://JackBludis.com
Hollywood Mysteries of the Early Fifties
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