> Miker wrote:
>
> >A couple of examples from THE
> >ILIAD: Achilles - the greatest warrior of his
time, was a practising
> >homosexual - he shares a tent with Patrocolus
& goes into a killing
>rage
> >when his lover is killed in battle by Hector,
the Trojan champion.
>
> Quite apart from the question of why any of this
would make Achilles
> "flawed," this simply isn't true. There's no
reference in the Iliad
to
> Achilles and Patroclus being lovers, that's a
post-Homeric gloss put
on the
> story by later Greeks and Romans.
>
Don't blame miker, that was me. It's not my opinion that
being homosexual is a flaw, the Classical Greeks looked down
on homosexuality
(or whatever you want to call two men having sexual congress
- Mario tells us that homosexuality is a modern concept). I
know that the nature of Achilles' & Patrocolus'
relationship is not spelled out but I believe the implication
is in the text - A & P share a tent in a time when the
great heroes had their own tents. Also, the savagery of
Achilles' response to the death of Pat although not
conclusive evidence surely implies a relationship that went
deeper than just being buddies.In short, I think Homer was
dropping hints about the character of Achilles, mainly
because his audience probably already knew, or thought they
did, about Achilles. (It reminds me a little of the incident
that Truman Capote based IN COLD BLOOD on. One of the two
home invaders involved was about to rape the house owner's
daughter when his partner went ballistic & murdered the
whole household. Sexual jealousy is the only plausible
explanation in that instance. And before I have to defend
myself, no, I don't think murders inspired by sexual jealousy
are a particularly gay thing. They are a human thing.) On the
topic of changing notions of heroism, it's interesting to
note that the Achilles/Patroclus (with the homo-spin, also
not spelled out but pretty obvious to a contemporary audience
all the same) story was recycled in MAD MAX II (aka THE ROAD
WARRIOR), Max standing in for Hector, the mohawk sporting Wes
as Achilles & a pretty blonde boy
("spunky surfer bi-guy seeks same"*) as Patroclus. Of course
in this version, the Trojans win & Achilles (& the
rest of the Greeks) are the baddies.In today's world being a
brave & mighty warrior does not guarantee hero status.
Anyone have any problem with me describing Odysseus as a
draft dodger?
(Personally, I tend towards pacifism myself, so I wasn't
implying that Ody was flawed because he'd rather stay home
with the wife & kids rather than go raping &
pillaging with the rest of the boys. The Greeks wouldn't have
shared my opinion.)
(*Sorry about that. Tired & emotional).
Rene, who isn't gay (not that there's anything wrong etc)
& is not a gay basher (& there is something wrong
with that)
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