In a message dated 5/2/02 5:42:57 AM,
anthony.dauer@verizon.net writes:
<< The true test of any definition is to take it out of
the experts' hands and to see how the great unwashed see it.
We all know what hardboiled is or at least what we believe
hardboiled is. >>
Ah, so this is the "true" test of a
definition. I didn't know that. I wonder if the folks who
produce all of those dictionaries know that?
A few days ago, you tossed Eddie
Coyle, Matt Scudder, Easy Rawlins, and a handful of other
characters out of "hard-boiled" pool, because they
weren't
"truly" hard-boiled. Each of them failed some element of your
"no-scumbags,"
"no-pussies," "not truly self-confident" rule. Ah,
there's that word again.
Maybe the problem we're having is
that the rest of us don't use enough, or at least don't use
the correct, modifiers. Perhaps we aren't sufficiently hip to
the meaning of "true" and "truly," and the need for their
inclusion in any "truly" accurate definition.
Jim Doherty may have a developed a
broader meaning for "tough" and
"colloquial" than are in common useage outside the world of
hard-boiled fans, but his terms are easy to understand around
here, and they have proven to be both inclusive and
useful.
Jack Bludis said he thought you were
overcomplicating the definition of hard-boiled. I believe you
started out with a death grip on the idea that no one can
accurately state "true" (couldn't resist that one)
definitions of hard-boiled and noir, and that a sizable array
of well stated arguments, logic, examples, and counter
examples have not pried even one of your fingers away from
that belief. Despite the involvement of well known hard heads
like myself on the RARA AVIS list, you may have established
that when it comes to hardheadedness, "you da man."
Jim
Blue
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 02 May 2002 EDT