Re: RARA-AVIS: Hardboiled jazz/Davis as icon for most of the wrong reasons

From: dave (
Date: 28 Nov 2001

I'm sorry to git down, but you sound like one ignorant motherfucker. To call Miles overrated is to know nothing about jazz. I don't know how he "damaged" Coltrane's career, either. Cecil Taylor holds no candle, and Ornette does show genius, but he also shows no respect, by playing trumpet and violin, without ever taking a lesson. Miles talks alot about how he dug Ornette, btw.

Miles is almost single handedly responsible for John Lewis' career. Not to mention how close he was to Gil Evans, the one white man he loved. (And did countless albums with.) His
"Birth Of the Cool" sides invented third stream in 1948-49! Everything afterwards came outta those sides.

Likewise, Miles invented "fusion" in the sixties Why? Because he felt music should be alive, and not exist inside some mausoleum. Yeah, "jazz" was dead, then. But Miles was totally into Sly and the Family Stone, and he was chasing Sly throughout this period. Every great jazz musician of this late stage apprenticed with Miles -- Keith Jarrett, John McLaughlin, Chick Corea ... the list is endless.

I'm sorry, but I will brook no criticism of Miles. No matter what Dizzy said. Miles always respected and loved Dizzy, but I saw them all in the last years, and Dizzy's music, almost always sucked. Miles, at least, had some moments. But in the sixties, and early seventies -- those Miles sides are ... total motherfuckers.

Todd Mason wrote:
 to casually damage the careers of the likes of
> Cecil Taylor, Ornette Coleman, and even John Coltrane.

> The single most overrated figure in jazz, despite being a genius, and it's
> notable how much the "unhip" 3rd Stream folk (Dave Brubeck, John Lewis, Gil
> Evans, Chico Hamilton) reached out to and fostered the free-jazz players,
> while Davis retreated into often self-indulgent fusion, presumably the
> sterling counter-example to Coltrane, et al.'s, "anti-jazz."

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