RARA-AVIS: RE: RARA-AVIS Digest V3 #829

From: Dick Lochte ( dlochte@home.com)
Date: 18 Aug 2001

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-----Original Message----- From: owner-rara-avis@icomm.ca [mailto: owner-rara-avis@icomm.ca] Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 2:23 PM To: rara-avis-digest@icomm.ca Subject: RARA-AVIS Digest V3 #829

RARA-AVIS Digest Saturday, August 18 2001 Volume 03 : Number 829

In this issue:

   RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...
   RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions
   Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions
   Re: RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...
   Re: RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...
   RE: RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...
   Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions
   Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions
   Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions
   Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions
   Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:09:44 -0400 From: Kevin Burton Smith < kvnsmith@thrillingdetective.com> Subject: RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...

Mark wrote:

>In my opinion, Polanski took what would have been a very good period PI

>film and turned it into a film classic.

I agree. And so do most of the people who've taken my poll. But wasn't CHINATOWN supposed to be a trilogy, originally?

A lot of people seem to hate THE TWO JAKES, but I see it as the logical sequel to CHINATOWN, tracing not just the development of Los Angeles, but of the private eye genre itself, as it moved from Hammett and Chandler's mean streets to the psychological mean streets of Ross Macdonald. No, JAKES is not CHINATOWN, but most movies aren't. What it is is a perhaps flawed but nonetheless engaging and intelligent, thought-out sequel that actual deserved to be filmed, not a quickie rip-off with a number tacked on the end of its title.

Of course, now Polanski's exiled to Europe, and Towne and Nicholson had a falling out over JAKES (which is why Nicholson himself ending up directing). Though maybe it's best not to have a third film made. The third might have a very bloated (seen THE PLEDGE?) Nicholson in a jogging suit with a wisecracking girlfriend, and a sociopathic mutant as a sidekick.

I don't want to see Jack jog -- it would be too frightening.

- --

Kevin Burton Smith The Thrilling Detective Web Site http://www.thrillingdetective.com

Let's go to the movies! Plus new fiction from Hugh Lessig, John Alvar, O'Neil De Noux and Graham Powell. Plus web comics: Odd Jobs and The Damnation Gambit and soon, the return of Femme Noir.
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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:10:27 -0700 (PDT) From: George Upper < gcupper3@yahoo.com> Subject: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

Is anybody familiar with any of these titles? I picked them up for a song at a used paperback sale.

Rafferty: Wrong Place, Wrong Time (W. Glenn Duncan) Rafferty's Rules (Duncan) Deviant Behavior (Earl Emerson) Catfish Cafe (Emerson) Juice (Stephen Becker) Shadow of a Tiger (Michael Collins)

Also, does anyone have an opinion on the Toff books by Creasey? I keep passing these over at my local used book shop. I'm not sure why--the cover art and blurbs sound h-b enough...maybe I'm just not the Anglophile I think I am.

===== George C. Upper III, Editor The Lightning Bell Poetry Journal http://www.lightningbell.org

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) From: JIM DOHERTY < jimdohertyjr@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

George,

Re your questions below:

> Is anybody familiar with any of these titles? I
> picked them up for a song at a used paperback sale.
>
> Rafferty: Wrong Place, Wrong Time (W. Glenn Duncan) Rafferty's Rules
> (Duncan)

The Rafferty series is a reasonably well-done, if fairly generic (i.e. 30-is ex-cop operating a one-man PI agency in a large US city, telloing his stories in the first person, etc.), Texas-set PI series. Hero is kind of a cross between Spenser and Mike Hammer with a Lone Star drawl. One of them, I forget which, won a Shamus for best PBO PI novel. *Rafferty's Rules*, the first in the series, has the hero contending with an outlaw fiker gang.

> Shadow of a Tiger (Michael Collins)

Early entry in the always reliable Dan Fortune PI series.

> Also, does anyone have an opinion on the Toff books
> by Creasey?

I like Creasey (or at least I like the Roger West and Gideon books, particularly the Gideons), but the Toff has always left me cold. Too obviously a Saint rip-off, and if I want the Saint, I can always read Leslie Charteris.

JIM DOHERTY

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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:49:16 -0700 (PDT) From: JIM DOHERTY < jimdohertyjr@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...

Re Kevin's observations below:

> A lot of people seem to hate THE TWO JAKES, but I
> see it as the
> logical sequel to CHINATOWN, tracing not just the
> development of Los
> Angeles, but of the private eye genre itself, as it
> moved from
> Hammett and Chandler's mean streets to the
> psychological mean streets
> of Ross Macdonald. No, JAKES is not CHINATOWN, but
> most movies
> aren't. What it is is a perhaps flawed but
> nonetheless engaging and
> intelligent, thought-out sequel that actual deserved
> to be filmed,
> not a quickie rip-off with a number tacked on the
> end of its title.

I agree. *The Two Jakes* may not be as good as
*Chinatown*, but it's the best private eye picture
*since* *Chinatown*, which automatically makes it one of the two best PI films of the last thirty years.

My one complaint, and it's a fairly minor one, is that the film assumed the audience had an intimate knowledge of the events in *Chinatown*. Not merely a passing familiarity, but intimate knowledge. So if you hadn't seen *Chinatown* a very short time before seeing *2 Jakes*, you were likely to find things a bit confusing. But, like I said, that's a minor quibble.

I'm still hoping that somehow they'll manage to get the third one made.

JIM DOHERTY

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:34:59 EDT From: BaxDeal@aol.com Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...

In a message dated 8/18/01 12:51:06 PM, jimdohertyjr@yahoo.com writes:

<< *The Two Jakes* may not be as good as
*Chinatown*, but it's the best private eye picture
*since* *Chinatown*, which automatically makes it one of the two best PI films of the last thirty years. >>

Of course, the list of PI films made in the last thirty years is not a very long one. I'm hard pressed to name more than half a dozen.

John Lau
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:48:39 -0700 From: "Henry Baker" < hbaker@rcnmail.com> Subject: RE: RARA-AVIS: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown...

So if you hadn't seen *Chinatown* a very short time before seeing *2 Jakes*, you were likely to find things a bit confusing.
- ----------------------------- Unfortunately I saw the 2 jakes when it first came out and still have not seen Chinatown. I'm hoping to find a decent video store in my neighborhood that will have it.

But nonetheless I love 2 Jakes even though it confuses me from time to time. I like trying to piece together what I think may have happened in Chinatown. And I just plain like Jack as a PI. Its fun.

Henry
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:50:01 -0700 (PDT) From: George Upper < gcupper3@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

- --- JIM DOHERTY < jimdohertyjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well, he wrote a lot of stuff.

Thanks, Jim. Until recently, I have had a terrible tendency to find a writer I like and stick to him at all costs. So my knowledge of a few authors is fairly deep, but my overall h-b experience is not yet very wide. One of the reasons I so love this list is that it helps me identify new authors (new to me, I mean) to try and also those that are best left till later, if at all.

I had heard of the Dan Fortune books, which is why I picked up the one I did, but had always assumed that they were akin to the numbered action series novels. Nothing wrong with them, of course (in fact, I recommend the early Destroyer series to those who can appreciate some tongue-in-cheek action fiction), but not usually a high priority for me when I'm allocating my reading time.

===== George C. Upper III, Editor The Lightning Bell Poetry Journal http://www.lightningbell.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:07:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mario Taboada < matrxtech@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

<<I had heard of the Dan Fortune books, which is why I picked up the one I did, but had always assumed that they were akin to the numbered action series novels.>>

No, the Dan Fortune series is not at all canned. Fortune has a very strong personality and even stronger opinions on all kinds of things. He's also very tough despite his handicap. Collins is second to none in craftsmanship. I would say this is one of the better PI series going (for over 30 years now).

If you like the classic PI story, you will likely enjoy Dan Fortune.

Regards,

MrT

=====

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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:11:46 -0700 (PDT) From: George Upper < gcupper3@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

Is Collins still writing? I mean, is this an ongoing series? Finding a new series I enjoy is about as good as my life gets while I'm still in grad school!

- --- Mario Taboada < matrxtech@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <<I had heard of the Dan Fortune books, which is why
> I
> picked up the one I did, but had always assumed that
> they were akin to the numbered action series
> novels.>>
>
> No, the Dan Fortune series is not at all canned.
> Fortune
> has a very strong personality and even stronger
> opinions on
> all kinds of things. He's also very tough despite
> his
> handicap. Collins is second to none in
> craftsmanship. I
> would say this is one of the better PI series going
> (for
> over 30 years now).
>
> If you like the classic PI story, you will likely
> enjoy Dan
> Fortune.
>
> Regards,
>
> MrT
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
> with Yahoo! Messenger
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> --
> # To unsubscribe from the regular list, say
> "unsubscribe rara-avis" to
> # majordomo@icomm.ca. This will not work for the
> digest version.
> # The web pages for the list are at
> http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/ .

===== George C. Upper III, Editor The Lightning Bell Poetry Journal http://www.lightningbell.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:21:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mario Taboada < matrxtech@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

<<Is Collins still writing? I mean, is this an ongoing series? Finding a new series I enjoy is about as good as my life gets while I'm still in grad school!>>

Yes, he is writing. He is now in his seventies (born 1924), still going strong. A very prolific and accomplished writer. He is not afraid to voice his political opinions. This has put off some raravians (or am I misremembering?), but it doesn't bother me. The stories and the characters are very good.

You should be able to find Collins's out of print books easily in second-hand stores.

Regards,

MrT

=====

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:21:59 -0400 (EDT) From: DJ-Anonyme@webtv.net (Mark Sullivan) Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: recent acquisitions

George asked:

"Is anybody familiar with any of these titles? I picked them up for a song at a used paperback sale."

Rafferty: Wrong Place, Wrong Time (W. Glenn Duncan) Rafferty's Rules (Duncan)

I like this series of 6 books featuring a smartass, one-name PI and his psycho cowboy sidekick. Obviously, post-Spenser, however, I like these a lot more than I like Spenser. They do not for an instant take themselves seriously, just run with the action and a PI who thinks he's a lot funnier than he is (including quoting from his long catalog of randomly numbered "rules"), as everyone constantly reminds him. Fast, fun reads.

Deviant Behavior (Earl Emerson) Catfish Cafe (Emerson)

I also really like the Thomas Black books. The series started off mediumboiled, but got harder as it went along. Belying the claim that domesticity undercuts a PI series, Black's cases got darker (in a Ross Macdonald sense, to whom he has always owed a bit of a debt in his plots) after he got married. This is not to say there are not still madcap moments (as in the Thin Man-ish spousal repartee). Deviant Behavior is before the turning point of The Portland Laugher (which got downright nasty at points), Catfish Cafe is after. I've enjoyed the entire series.

Shadow of a Tiger (Michael Collins)

Early in the Dan Fortune series. I've never gone wrong with a Fortune novel, although some have recently commented (complained?) they are quietly hardboiled. They are more investigative than action oriented. The series gets increasingly critical of an uncaring society as it goes along, but does it through building empathy for fully drawn, socially marginal characters, not through preaching. However, this book is from pretty early in the series, before Collins' (Lynds') politics became quite so overt.

Mark

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End of RARA-AVIS Digest V3 #829
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