RARA-AVIS: RE: RARA-AVIS Digest V3 #499

From: Daniel Sevitt ( DANIELSE@Amdocs.com)
Date: 21 Nov 2000

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Daniel Sevitt danielse@amdocs.com
+972 9 776 3745

-----Original Message----- From: owner-rara-avis@icomm.ca [mailto: owner-rara-avis@icomm.ca] Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:00 AM To: rara-avis-digest@icomm.ca Subject: RARA-AVIS Digest V3 #499

RARA-AVIS Digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 03 : Number 499

In this issue:

   Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"
   RE: RARA-AVIS: FLASHFIRE
   Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"
   Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"
   Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"
   RE: RARA-AVIS: FLASHFIRE
   Re: RARA-AVIS: Grofeld
   Re: RARA-AVIS: Stark Month--What do you think of the Grofield novels?
   RARA-AVIS: Stark's Slayground
   Re: RARA-AVIS: Stark's Slayground
   Re: RARA-AVIS: starr
   Re: RARA-AVIS: Stark Month--What do you think of the Grofield novels?

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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:45:45 -0800 (PST) From: Etienne Borgers < freeweb@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"

Thanks for trying to help.

I've read 'Whores' and it's one of the collections of short stories that made me doubt about Penzler's statement.

I never had a look at this edition of 'Muddy forks...', but I suppose it harbors stories with copyrights after 1973.(?)

Or is it because 'Hot Springs' was an original for the 1996 collection and this made it special amongst the publication of *books* with short stories by Crumley?

E.Borgers Hard-Boiled Mysteries http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6384

- --- Maura McMillan < mmcm@azstarnet.com> wrote:
> i looked at what we have here, which isn't every
> crumley thing there is, of
> course, but many --
>
> 'whores', 1988, (dennis mcmillan) includes a number
> of previously
> unpublished short stories. let me know if you want
> to see the publication
> page --
>
> also, we have here 'the muddy fork and other things'
> (short fiction and
> nonfcition), 1991, clark city press, livingston, mt
>
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 05:06:46 -0500 From: "Saunders, Jack (Jack)" < jacksaunders@lucent.com> Subject: RE: RARA-AVIS: FLASHFIRE

It shipped from Amazon.com on Friday, November 17.

> ----------
> From: William Denton[SMTP: buff@pobox.com]
> Reply To: rara-avis@icomm.ca
> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 11:54 PM
> To: RARA-AVIS
> Subject: RARA-AVIS: FLASHFIRE
>
> I see that Richard Stark's FLASHFIRE is supposed to be out (in North
> America only, I suppose) on Tuesday, so if anyone sees it, give a shout so
> we can hit the bookstores.
>
> There are no Stark books to be found in any of the bookstores I frequent,
> even the big monster chains.
>
>
> Bill
> --
> William Denton : Toronto, Canada : http://www.miskatonic.org/ : Caveat
> lector.
>
> --
> # To unsubscribe from the regular list, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" to
> # majordomo@icomm.ca. This will not work for the digest version.
> # The web pages for the list are at http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/ .
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:51:42 -0500 (EST) From: DJ-Anonyme@webtv.net (Mark Sullivan) Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"

I never got around to picking up Muddy Forks because it didn't have that much I didn't already have in Whores. And I think, but am not entirely sure, that it was rounded out with non-fiction magazine pieces.

Penzler may also be getting around the "new short story" technicality by exempting excerpts from works in progress. As I recall (it's buried in a box I can't get to at the moment), much if not all of the new fiction in Whores was chapters of what woud become Mexican Tree Duck (the jukebox on the traintracks chapter) and his long-awaited Texas novel. As I noted though, this is from memory when I read it when it first came out, so I may not be entirely accurate.

Mark

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:26:28 -0600 From: kip.stratton@ni.com Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"

Crumley, of course, started out as a "quality Lit" sort of guy out of the University of Iowa Writers Workshop. As a young man, he wrote short stories and was well acquainted with three masters of the form, Bill Kittredge, Raymond Carver, and Andre Dubus. But in the intro to MUDDY FORK, I believe it was, he says something about moving away from shorter fiction to the novel (and ultimately to crime fiction). My guess is that the stories Dennis collected in WHORES and those subsequently collected by Dan Gerber into MUDDY FORK were written prior to 1973. I know some of them had appeared in literary journals previously. Others had not been set into type until Dennis brought out WHORES and so, therefore, did not appear in print until the '80s, although I suspect they were written several years earlier.

My speculation on the matter....

Later....Kip

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:49:44 -0700 From: Maura McMillan < mmcm@azstarnet.com> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: James Crumley's short story: "Hot Springs"

crumley has published a number of short stories since 1973, one of which is in penzler's anthology. in muddy fork, yes, there are numerous short stories, or story orphans, as he refers to them, that are being published for the first time. that's 1991. so maybe the anthologist just got a little carried away in his enthusiasm for the genre etc. :o)

At 01:45 AM 11/20/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Thanks for trying to help.
>
>I've read 'Whores' and it's one of the collections of
>short stories that made me doubt about Penzler's
>statement.
>
>I never had a look at this edition of 'Muddy
>forks...', but I suppose it harbors stories with
>copyrights after 1973.(?)
>
>Or is it because 'Hot Springs' was an original for the
>1996 collection and this made it special amongst the
>publication of *books* with short stories by Crumley?
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:50:48 -0700 From: Maura McMillan < mmcm@azstarnet.com> Subject: RE: RARA-AVIS: FLASHFIRE

i got a copy yesterday at clues, local mystery bookstore.

At 05:06 AM 11/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>It shipped from Amazon.com on Friday, November 17.
>
>> ----------
>> From: William Denton[SMTP: buff@pobox.com]
>> Reply To: rara-avis@icomm.ca
>> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 11:54 PM
>> To: RARA-AVIS
>> Subject: RARA-AVIS: FLASHFIRE
>>
>> I see that Richard Stark's FLASHFIRE is supposed to be out (in North
>> America only, I suppose) on Tuesday, so if anyone sees it, give a shout
so
>> we can hit the bookstores.
>>
>> There are no Stark books to be found in any of the bookstores I frequent,
>> even the big monster chains.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>> --
>> William Denton : Toronto, Canada : http://www.miskatonic.org/ : Caveat
>> lector.
>>
>> --
>> # To unsubscribe from the regular list, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" to
>> # majordomo@icomm.ca. This will not work for the digest version.
>> # The web pages for the list are at http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
.
>>
>--
># To unsubscribe from the regular list, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" to
># majordomo@icomm.ca. This will not work for the digest version.
># The web pages for the list are at http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/ .
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:56:39 -0600 From: "Mark Blumenthal" < blumenidiot@21stcentury.net> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: Grofeld

Doug Bassett :

> Oddly enough, I feel exactly the opposite. Just read
> _The Man with the Getaway Face_ and while I liked it,
> more or less, the whole thing left me rather cold.
> Although I think I understand what Westlake was trying
> to do here, I think, oddly enough, that he's almost
> too successful doing it. Hard for me to put it into
> words, but I actually find the Parker novels (I've
> read a couple of others) sort of dull. I think the
> Grofeld novels are much more entertaining -- maybe
> because Grofeld is a more appealing character.

I like both. The character Grofield is in four or five Parker books as well as the four only about him. Grofield is the lighter yang to Parker's virtully unrelenting yang. This is clear in the books that share the same first chapter, __TheBlack Bird__ featuring Grofield and __Slayground__ with Parker. Granted, Westlake has written about a lot of characters who are similar to Grofield, but there is only one Parker. I think the books succeed as a a mix between the grimness of the Parker books and the humor of many of Westlake's other books. Of the four I like __The Damsel__ best. Mark.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:26:19 -0600 From: "Mark Blumenthal" < blumenidiot@21stcentury.net> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: Stark Month--What do you think of the Grofield novels?

Doug Basset again:

> I think those who like the Dortmunder Westlake will
> tend to like the Grofeld books, and vice versa.
>

I may be an exception in this also. I like Grofield though I'm not crazy about the Dortmunder books, but I really like most of Westlake's lighter books.

As long as Doug mentioned Dortmunder I'll sneak in a mention of an author who definitely is not hard boiled. I really like English fantasy writer Tom Holt. In one of his latest books he takes on fairy tales and nursery rhymes. After blowing down the Three Pigs' house, The Big Bad Wolf, sensing danger,
"figured out long ago that true courage is the ability to throw fear out of focus long enough to get the job done. Through these mean glades a wolf must trot, and that was all there was to it."

You find echoes of Chandler in unexpected places. Mark

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:18:48 -0800 From: "bearlodge" < bearlodge@email.msn.com> Subject: RARA-AVIS: Stark's Slayground

Slayground is the first Stark I've read and I can't say that I was overly impressed. I liked it enough to try another some day but not real soon. I liked the setting, Parker and the goods from a robbery trapped in an amusement park but I thought the plot unfolded in a rather pedestrian way.

I'm more intrigued by the enthusiastic recommendations of Harrington's Dark Ride and his later ones. And I have some Jim Sallis that cries to be read.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Eat turkey and read a good book.

Cheers, Frank Denton

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:09:42 -0500 (EST) From: DJ-Anonyme@webtv.net (Mark Sullivan) Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: Stark's Slayground

Slayground was the frst Parker I read, also. At that point, Berkley Medallion (I think) was reissuing them with numbers in the corner. Slayground was #1, Point Blank was #2, etc. As you can see, the numbers had nothing to do with the original order of publication. Anyway, Slayground is not one of my favorite Parker books, either. It relies too much on a gimmick, putting Parker into a confined area, then having him react to various things and people coming at him in the amusement park. I am far more interested in reading about Parker acting, than reacting.

Unlike Martha, I'm a big fan of the planning and execution sections of the series. I find these parts fascinating. The whole book flows from trying to stick with the plan as things go awry.

So Frank, I guess I'm saying you should give the series another chance, possibly with The Hunter (AKA Point Blank, AKA Payback). Although, I heartily recommend Dark Ride and, especially, Sallis, also. I just read Eye of the Cricket and it's my favorite in the Lew Griffin series after the first.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:26:26 -0500 (EST) From: DJ-Anonyme@webtv.net (Mark Sullivan) Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: starr

Neil wrote:

"Another guy they've got at 4W/8W is Steve Aylett, who is working in cyberpunk hb/noir, it looks like."

Yes, Aylett is kind cyberpunk, but far less "naturalistic," if you can say that about a sci-fi-ish book, than Gibson, Shirley or Jeter, for example. He is pretty high camp, in a British mode. His first, The Crime Studio, seemed to have am intriguing concept, a city ruled by criminals (out front, not behind the scenes), but it was way too arch for its own good, with very seat of the pants plotting -- hey, wouldn't it be cool to throw this in? It has a nice momentum, but doesn't really add up. I got bogged down in the middle of his third (skipped the second), Slaughtermatic, some time ago and haven't gotten back to it.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:22:22 +0200 (EET) From: Juri Nummelin < jurnum@utu.fi> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: Stark Month--What do you think of the Grofield novels?

On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Mark Blumenthal wrote:

> Doug Basset again:
> > I think those who like the Dortmunder Westlake will
> > tend to like the Grofeld books, and vice versa.
> I may be an exception in this also. I like Grofield though I'm not crazy
> about the Dortmunder books, but I really like most of Westlake's lighter
> books.

I too like the Grofield books. I feel that in them Westlake has found a neat balance between light humour and hard boiled caper stuff.

Juri

------------------------------

End of RARA-AVIS Digest V3 #499
*******************************

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