From: Doug Bassett (
Date: 08 Feb 2000

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I was trying to very generally describe the difference between a
"hardboiled" and "noir" outlook. I hope whoever posted that original message was helped a little by what I said.

On a competely different note, I finally caught up with Estleman's Amos Walker. I read SUGARTOWN and while I enjoyed it, I agree with the criticisms I read here that Walker's anachronistic. It's not the manner in which Walker does his job that bothers me -- as I've said here before, those kind of surface details don't interest me much -- so much as the plot's overly reminiscent of other hardboiled stories. There is, for example, a "drug the detective" section straight out of FAREWELL MY LOVELY.

To draw an analogy: every now and then you'll stumble across a rock band that specializes in playing in a 1960's garage style, or a 1950's rockabilly style. These bands can be very good, but there's no getting past the fact that you're listening to a mannered replica of a better original. That's sort of what I feel about Walker


--- John & Carrie <> wrote:
> Doug Bassett said:
> > There's actually two versions of the "hardboiled
> > outlook". The first is the one you seem to be
> > describing below, which I would rephrase as "the
> world
> > sucks but I am pure. I can lead you through it."
> This
> > is the "Chandler" outlook and it's very famous.
> Most
> > people, when they think about hardboiled fiction,
> are
> > thinking about stuff like this.
> >
> > The second one is "the world sucks and I am part
> of
> > its awfulness. I can take you on a tour through
> it."
> > To make things easy, call this the "Thompson"
> outlook.
> > (The protagonists of most of Thompson's books are
> > sociopaths of one sort or another.)
> Nice post, Doug. I think you may have set a
> difference between Hardboiled
> and noir? Was that your intent? If it was, I think
> you're right on the
> money.
> Tribe

===== Doug Bassett
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

# To unsubscribe, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" to
# The web pages for the list are at .

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : 08 Feb 2000 EST