Re: RARA-AVIS: Marxist in the third person narrative

Fred Willard (rainwill@mindspring.com)
Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:55:27 +0000 On 2 Aug 97 at 19:03, Jiro Kimura wrote:

> I think a lot of hardboiled detectives are Groucho Marxists rather
> than Karl Marxists.
>
You're probably right, although you'll find a much higher
concentration of Groucho Marxists per square inch in the caper books.

<snip>
> I think the third person narrative is more hardboiled than the first
> person one, as you can see in the fine example of Dashiell Hammett's
> THE GLASS KEY and THE MALTESE FALCON, Paul Cain's THE FAST ONE, and
> Raymond Chandler's first mystery story, "Blackmailers Don't Shoot."
>
I've been thinking about this myself. Here's my take on the reasons a
writer might use either.

The third person comes in several varieties. Third person omniscient
doesn't seem very popular in HB. Third person limited, shifting point
of view is used but doesn't seem as popular as third person limited,
protagonist point of view, and first person.

As an example, Charles Willeford used third person shifting POV in
Miami Blues, third person protagonist POV in The Way We Die Now.

The first person and the third, protagonist pov have a lot in common
also many differences. The first person allows an interior dialog and
in some ways, metaphors are easier to construct because we know we are
dealing with the narrator-as-character's thought processes.

The third person allows a separate voice for the narrator from the
protagonist allowing moral distance, opacity for the character of the
protagonist, and more ways to construct suspense through an
unpredictable protagonist.

Why anyone would pick one of these is largely a question of taste and
the story they want to tell, although the third-shifting does allow
for more layering and complexity.

One particularly interesting type of first person narrator is the
psychopath/serial killer. Thompson's KILLER INSIDE ME, Ellroy's
SILENT TERROR, AMERICAN PSYCHO ( I think by Ellis) are examples.

They also illustrate the difficulty of telling a story with a
dysfunctional narrator.

> Of course, you should write how characters feel only by their
> actions and talkings, not by getting into their brains. If you read
> above-mentioned masterpieces, you will get my drift. Chandler tried
> to do the third person narrative in his first story, but he must
> have found it very hard to accomplish. He soon started to write in
> the first person narrative.
>
> These days, so-called "hardboiled" gumshoes talk too much, brood too
> much, express their feelings too much, and justify or rationalize
> their actions too much--to pad books? I know they have feelings but
> please don't say it, just act it out and let readers think how they
> feel.
>
> Real hardboiled detective stories is too tough to write. There are
> very few writers practicing the real McCoy.
>

------------------------------
Fred Willard
fwillard@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~fwillard
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