Defining "hardboiled" and "noir" is like defining "jazz" and "swing" - a dubious enterprise at best. A definition is no substitute for reading or listening, respectively. If the terms are understood as broad metaphors, they do no harm; if they are used as criteria for inclusion and exclusion of authors or works, they can only lead to misunderstandings and nitpicky quarrelling. Incidentally, John Dos Passos's U.S.A. trilogy is as hardboiled as they come... and someone like James Ellroy is clearly a literary descendant of Dos Passos (his style is laced with a dose of Jim Thompson, too). To say that Ellroy is hardboiled and Dos Passos is not seems to deny the obvious. Hemingway,too, is notoriously hardboiled (some say to a fault!), even though he did not write mysteries. For that matter, Geoffrey Household was hardboiled too, although he is rarely mentioned as such. As to the purported rift between academics and lay folk, it's a dead horse that I suggest should be left alone - it's not really germane to a discussion of mysteries. And an academic badge is not worth much these days - plumbers are more prosperous than professors... Regards, Mario Taboada Old Dominion University - # RARA-AVIS: To unsubscribe, say "unsubscribe rara-avis" # to majordomo@icomm.ca