You're talking about movies. Penzler is talking about novels.
David
On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:36 PM, Mark Sullivan wrote:
>
> I'll allow there are some happy endings, Ron, but a lot of them are provisional at best, often having a tacked on feeling. For example, I've always laughed at the ending of Pick Up on South Street. Pickpocket Richard Widmark is going straight after having found the love of a good woman. But how long can it last? He has not skills other than picking pockets, is totally immersed in the criminal underworld and has a long record. What will he do? How will he fit into upright society? There's a musical for Sondheim to do, follow up on those MPAA-imposed happy endings of noir films like he did with fairy tales in Into the Woods.
> Mark
>
> > To: rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com
> > From: clinton65@comcast.net
> > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:37:43 -0700
> > Subject: RE: RARA-AVIS: "Noir Fiction Is About Losers, Not Private Eyes" Otto Penzler
> >
> > Penzler's take on it is certainly an apt one, though I'd argue with his
> > conclusion:
> >
> > "The noir story with a happy ending has never been written, nor can it be.
> > The lost and corrupt souls who populate these tales were doomed before we
> > met them because of their hollow hearts and depraved sensibilities."
> >
> > While I like the tone and phrasing, and there is certainly an element(s) of
> > truth behind his contention, I'd argue his conclusion is incorrect in
> > suggesting a lack of happy ending is absolute. There have been many noir
> > books that show the protagonist achieving some sense of success against the
> > odds at the story's end. Yes, he may be battered and bruised and perhaps
> > his methodology in reaching success was unorthodox and "depraved" -- but not
> > every true noir work requires the protagonist's utter defeat.
> >
> > Ron C.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Nigel Algar
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:32 PM
> > > To: rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: "Noir Fiction Is About Losers, Not Private Eyes"
> > Otto
> > > Penzler
> > >
> > > Not that anyone asked me, but Otto Penzler's article is right on the
> > money.
> > > The sooner we forget about 'noir' as a label to slap on anything that is
> > > remotely 'dark' - another over-used marketing term - the better.
> > >
> > > Nigel
> > >
> > > On 10/08/2010 22:35, "Jack Bludis" <buildsnburns@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You can find Otto Penzler's article by the title in the Huffington Post
> > dated
> > > > today 8/10/10
> > > >
> > > > The URL is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/otto-penzler/noir-fiction-is-about-los_b_67620
> > 0.
> > > > html
> > > >
> > > > Jack Bludis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
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> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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