RE: RARA-AVIS: "Noir Fiction Is About Losers, Not Private Eyes" Otto Penzler

From: Mark Sullivan (DJ-Anonyme@webtv.net)
Date: 10 Aug 2010

  • Next message: David Rachels: "Re: RARA-AVIS: "Noir Fiction Is About Losers, Not Private Eyes" Otto Penzler"

    I'll allow there are some happy endings, Ron, but a lot of them are provisional at best, often having a tacked on feeling. For example, I've always laughed at the ending of Pick Up on South Street. Pickpocket Richard Widmark is going straight after having found the love of a good woman. But how long can it last? He has not skills other than picking pockets, is totally immersed in the criminal underworld and has a long record. What will he do? How will he fit into upright society? There's a musical for Sondheim to do, follow up on those MPAA-imposed happy endings of noir films like he did with fairy tales in Into the Woods. Mark

    > To: rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com
    > From: clinton65@comcast.net
    > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:37:43 -0700
    > Subject: RE: RARA-AVIS: "Noir Fiction Is About Losers, Not Private Eyes" Otto Penzler
    >
    > Penzler's take on it is certainly an apt one, though I'd argue with his
    > conclusion:
    >
    > "The noir story with a happy ending has never been written, nor can it be.
    > The lost and corrupt souls who populate these tales were doomed before we
    > met them because of their hollow hearts and depraved sensibilities."
    >
    > While I like the tone and phrasing, and there is certainly an element(s) of
    > truth behind his contention, I'd argue his conclusion is incorrect in
    > suggesting a lack of happy ending is absolute. There have been many noir
    > books that show the protagonist achieving some sense of success against the
    > odds at the story's end. Yes, he may be battered and bruised and perhaps
    > his methodology in reaching success was unorthodox and "depraved" -- but not
    > every true noir work requires the protagonist's utter defeat.
    >
    > Ron C.
    >
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com] On
    > > Behalf Of Nigel Algar
    > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:32 PM
    > > To: rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: "Noir Fiction Is About Losers, Not Private Eyes"
    > Otto
    > > Penzler
    > >
    > > Not that anyone asked me, but Otto Penzler's article is right on the
    > money.
    > > The sooner we forget about 'noir' as a label to slap on anything that is
    > > remotely 'dark' - another over-used marketing term - the better.
    > >
    > > Nigel
    > >
    > > On 10/08/2010 22:35, "Jack Bludis" <buildsnburns@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > > You can find Otto Penzler's article by the title in the Huffington Post
    > dated
    > > > today 8/10/10
    > > >
    > > > The URL is:
    > > >
    > > >
    > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/otto-penzler/noir-fiction-is-about-los_b_67620
    > 0.
    > > > html
    > > >
    > > > Jack Bludis
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ------------------------------------
    > > >
    > > > RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------------------
    > >
    > > RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------
    >
    > RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
                                                   

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