My take on Red Harvest and The Dain Curse is that they
reflect Joseph T. Shaw's overbearing editorial style. The
typical Shaw edited Black Mask story is very linear with no
plot climax just a series of violent events that bludgeon the
reader with hardboiled images.
I liked both of these books when I read them, many, many
years ago. I remember thinking when I read Red Harvest that
this book is Hammet's answer to Carroll John Daly or, in
other words the Continential Op knee deep in a Race Williams
plot.
Black Mask is a historically important pulp, but it is not
necessarily the best. I love the look of the magazine with
its incredible interior art, but I thought Shaw could have
been more hands off, like he was with Carroll John Daly. When
Shaw came to Black Mask, Daly was the top writer and he let
Daly be Daly. I wish he would have let Erle Stanley Gardner
be Gardner and Roger Torrey be Torrey. Both of those writers
did better pulp work, elsewhere.
Does anyone have a favorite pulp other than Black Mask? Dime
Detective, maybe? Detective Fiction Weekly? My personal
favorite is Speed Detective.
--- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Lynds"
<dennislynds@c...> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Golly, the town-tamer plot as you call it has to
have been around
since the
> Greeks.
>
> As for RED HARVEST, I had remembered it fondly, but
when I reread
it after
> 40 years, it just fell apart for me. Of course I
agree it's still
Hammett
> not Daly, but I simply found I could hardly read
it.
>
> What I strongly suspect Hammett was doing in it was
trying to make
a buck by
> giving his perceived audience what they wanted, and
at the same
time
> metaphorically savage his hated Boise.
>
> In that regard, I highly recommend a recent novel by
Jon Jackson
published
> by Dennis MacMillan, GO BY GO. It's nothing less
than Jackson's
conception
> of the novel Hammett should have written instead of
RED HARVEST,
and the
> reason he never wrote that novel.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Dennis-Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JIM DOHERTY"
<jimdohertyjr@y...>
> To: <
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:52 PM
> Subject: Re: RARA-AVIS: Another Heresy -- The Black
Mask and other
pulp
> fiction
>
>
> > Re Mr Lynds's comments below:
> >
> > > If I can put in my newcomer's two-cents, a
few years
> > > ago I reread all of
> > > Hammet's novels, and RED HARVEST does not
stand up.
> > > It's cliched and
> > > terribly dated.
> >
> > With all due respect to our honored guest (by
the way,
> > welcome; great to have you here) whose opinions
(at
> > least the non-political ones) I respect and
usually
> > agree with, RED HARVEST is nothing less than
one of
> > the best PI novels ever written and, with the
obvious
> > exception of THE MALTESE FALCON, Hammett's best
novel.
> >
> > Moreover, the basic "town-tamer" plot is
as
> > influential on later PI fiction, in its way,
as
> > FALCON's "Holy Grail" or "The Wench-dunit"
storylines.
> >
> > Years later, the "lone PI rides into a corrupt
rural
> > area and cleans house" plot has been used by
Brett
> > Halliday in A TASTE FOR VIOLENCE, Robert Parker
in
> > PALE KINGS AND PRINCES, Cleve Adams in
SABOTAGE, Jack
> > Lynch in THE MISSING AND THE DEAD, Mickey
SPillane in
> > THE TWISTED THING, etc, etc. Substitute "cop"
for
> > "PI" and you can add William Diehl's
HOOLIGANS,
> > Stephen Hunter's HOT SPRINGS, Fred Bean's BLACK
GOLD,
> > Matt Braun's ONE LAST TOWN, Horace McCoy's
"The
> > Mopper-Up," etc, etc. An if you just make
the
> > town-tamer a non-specific "lone heroic figure"
and you
> > can add films like LAST MAN STANDING and
DESPERADO.
> >
> > The "town-tamer" plot may not particularly
resonate
> > with you, and a lot of the stories deriving
from
> > HARVEST may be dreck, but no story or novel
that
> > wields that much influence can be totally
without
> > worth.
> >
> > > On the other hand I was totally
> > > surprised by THE THIN MAN.
> > > If you read it carefully, and try to
forget the
> > > movie, it's a pretty damn
> > > good novel with much to say. The three in
the
> > > middle hold up just fine, and
> > > THIN MAN deserves a reassessment, Robert
Parker to
> > > the contrary.
> >
> > I don't find THE THIN MAN a chore to read, but
it's
> > light fare compared to RED HARVEST.
> >
> > As for Jack's comments, that started this
whole
> > thread, the thing to remember is that the worst
of
> > Hammett and Chandler should not necessarily
be
> > compared to their best work, but to the work of
other
> > writers plowing the same field.
> >
> > By that standard, even the worst of Hammett
and
> > Chandler holds up damned well today. It only
seems
> > disappointing compared to their best (and most
often
> > reprinted) stuff.
> >
> > JIM DOHERTY
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
> >
> >
> >
> > RARA-AVIS home page: http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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