Commenting Neddal Ayad's message: The list you give here are
all good films but I see *most* of them more as an evolution
of "modern noir" than related to "neo-noir" as described in
my first message. They are mostly belonging to the mainstream
of present days "modern noir" films ( do not stop here, pls
read the rest of my answer...)
Not in the spirit of "I'm right, you wrong", but in order to
clarify my view on noir evolution in films, I would name
"modern noir" most of these films after 1955. This
modernization of the filming, characters and plots led to a
quick evolution of the noir American film that benefited from
the general evolution of films (American and foreign) during
the 60s and 70s (formal, characters...). This does not
diminish at all the high value of the best noir films from
the 40s and 50s, from the- let say- "classic noir"
period.
I personally see Point Blank (67) and some Peckinpah (early
70s) films as the turn point of modernization; these are
achievements of modern noir, but not an end as they bore
enough innovations and strength as to influence a good part
of the following period of "modernization".
Then, during the mid eighties appeared some films amongst the
"modern noir" that were carrying something more, slightly
different, even if we still can link them directly to the
film noir evolution; these last are the ones are the ones I
would like to name "neo-noir". Of course there is no real
pivotal year showing a limit in time, it's diffused and
appeared more often since the end of the 80s. Then became
common during the 90s and 00s. But, again, all the HB/noir
films issued during these periods of time do not belong to
this new category... Modern noir continues to live its own
evolution during the same periods
(re: Good Fellas, Grifters, Heat, LA Confidential, etc.) As I
said in my previous message, speaking of neo-noir:
"Maybe calling these modern films (appearing after the
fifties)
"neo-noir" could conciliate both approaches? But then I'm not
totally for this idea, as I should prefer to call "neo-noir"
a breed of films appearing during the end of the 80s, during
the 90s and still existing today."
"These last types of films are often closer to the spirit of
the B series of the 40s an 50s by the relative freedom of
scripts and filming, leading to fast, violent, dark films
with stories close to nihilism. They are mostly American
color movies, and generally with more substance than the
Tarantino films. "
But there are no strict borders and we see that recently
mainstream modern noir films become more and more influenced
by their "neo-noir" cousins. All this just to give some
tracks that could help to see how the noir film evolved from
its origin to contemporary noir, and not to give rules or
limitations.
WRITERS AND FILMS About the question coming from Mark about
writers, scripts and today films, I would like to underline
that the present day real evolution of what we could name
contemporary HB/noir is happening in these neo-noir films.
They are the today equivalent of the "paperback originals" of
the fifties and sixties, with a lot of these films being
second rate but really HB, fast, and now nihilist-noir by
intention. The rest, the quieter part of the mystery genres
-HB and others- are found in TV serials. Even if these films
and serials have been influenced by modern writers it does
not change anything in this analysis: there is a much wider
public for the films and series, a real popular public.
Number of productions is high and widely distributed through
TV, cable, and DVDs. Worse ( or better?) a lot of recent
writers are more influenced by the cheap movies cuts, and
their cinematography, in their style of writing than by their
peers writers of the field. Of course this does not mean that
there are no real contemporary top HB/noir writers, but their
readership is restricted (even for the higher sellers) and
the "book form" becomes more and more something elitist as a
consequence. Just my two cents for this vast question of
influences between HB/noir lit. and films. And vice
versa.
E.Borgers Hard-Boiled Mysteries http://www.geocities.com
Neddal Ayad :
>>I gathered here in a list some films I consider
belonging to the
>>neo-noir breed....
>>
>>
>I'm inclined to agree with your definition although
I'm not sure about
>the cut-off point. Maybe early 80's? That way you'd
get the early
>Cohen bros. movies, BLOOD SIMPLE, and BLADE
RUNNER.
>A few additions:
>MEMENTO (2000) USA
>RISK (2000) Aus.
>FOLLOWING (1998) U.K.
>LEON/THE PROFESSIONAL (199?) France?
>THE SALTON SEA (2002) USA
>U TURN (1996) USA
>RESEVOIR DOS (1992)USA
>SE7EN (1995) USA
>FIGHT CLUB (1999) USA
>FARGO (1996) USA
>
>
>
>
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